A complete knowledge of how the two work: no. We must remember that the earliest Christians were almost all from the lower class of society, so this would be BIG news to them. Men actively choose to reject God knowingly (see Rms 1). God "desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth." Apostasy is the deliberate and permanent rejection of Christianity after a … Here are some summary statements that put my thoughts on this great debate, ha. It is done for those who he has called. What is the mystery of faith? It is John 3:16: “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.”. 4) While we must open the door when He knocks...we would never even know that a door existed if He did not. var google_conversion_id = 1020472174; If Man is a sinner and all were formed in iniquity in the womb, of no fault of their own, since none of us asked to be born into a sin condition are at the pickings of God; then it would have been better had none of us been born if God purposely created a man or woman with the expressed purpose of them sharing with Satan an everlasting torment. Posted by: 1 Timothy 2:4 Parallel Verses [⇓ See commentary ⇓] 1 Timothy 2:4, NIV: "who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth." What does the Bible say about women pastors? To countspankula:You did not give a proper Exegete of John3:16 on the "who so ever". I believe in both because there is scripture that shows both. What does the "husband of one wife" phrase in 1 Timothy 3:2 mean? “A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. However, that is not so. Because Paul qualifies verse 1 with verse 2 when he speaks of "kings" (kings are types of people) and "those in high positions" (again "those in high positions" are types of people). That's clear isn't it? I thought about this, and everything Calvinist believe (tulip). John S | Can women serve as deacons in the church? Posted by: Posted by: Does man have any responsibility in his co-operation when the Spirit initiates a ‘Come and Follow me’ call? Posted by: However, even if it did it would make no difference in the debate. 1 Timothy 2:4 King James Version (KJV). Yes, God does all things according to the good pleasure of his will. Solid Joys. Conclusion: God then lied about the lake of fire being ‘created for the Devil and his angels. This is why a Calvinist cannot accept that 1 Tim 2:4 cannot mean all people. They claim that since 1 Timothy 2:11-12 says women should not teach or exercise authority over men, women should not be answering questions submitted by men. In quoting the verse they have told me that God has no interest in electing certain people to salvation but that His desire is for every person to be saved. Another example; One cannot violate GrandSharp's Greek-Grammar construct Rule and get away with it. or "is EVERYONE here?" Could not these men have snubbed their noses at God? January 19, 2015 09:09 PM, Calvinist say that the (all) in the verse refers to the elect. Jorge | salvation,) to be saved. What is the mystery of godliness? 1 Timothy 4:1 "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;" "Expressly" means clearly. 8:7, 8). The ones BELIEVING will not have one consequence but will have another. I have grown up in a reformed (PCA) church. What are the qualifications of elders and deacons? "For there is one God and one mediator between God and humanity." It may come as a big surprise to learn that in the original Greek of John 3:16, there is no word "whoever." 3. Is the ‘All’ in ‘All have sinned and come short of the Glory of God’ not the same as everyone has sinned? 7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. In 1 Timothy, Paul urged his young protégé to stay in Ephesus and battle the false teaching that was occurring there (1 Timothy 1:3). I am a 5-point Calvinist and I have heard many people use this particular verse to refute Calvinism (1 Timothy 2:4). Assignments on 1 Timothy 1 Read 1 Tim. therefore--taking up again the general subject of the Epistle in continuation ( 2 Timothy 2:1 ). I mention this verse in Revelation 5 because this is in perfect harmony with 1 Timothy 2:4 which teaches very clearly that God desires all (all kinds of people) to be saved. Jesus's intercession does not fail. The bible speaks of seeking and finding. “Have all men to be saved”: The word for “have”, is not that which normally expresses God’s will of decree (His eternal purpose), but God’s will of desire. Why not? Answering a question is, in their minds, teaching, and therefore a violation of 1 Timothy 2:11-12. When Paul wrote "First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people.." was he asking Timothy to get the equivalent of the local phone book and starting with the alphas and going all the way through to the omegas (the Greek alphabet) make supplication, pray, intercede and make thanksgiving for each individual in the city... or more than that, the whole world? I can´t resist to express my personal reflection on this matter. var google_conversion_format = "3"; 2 Timothy 2:4 Parallel Verses [⇓ See commentary ⇓] 2 Timothy 2:4, NIV: "No one serving as a soldier gets entangled in civilian affairs, but rather tries to please his commanding officer." The Greek word for "from" is ek meaning "out of" - He redeemed people out of every tribe, language, people group and nation.. NOT all without exception, but all without distinction. If John 3:16 implied a universal natural human ability of fallen men to choose Christ, then that implication would be wiped out by Jesus’ explicit teaching to the contrary. . So the 'all men' in 1 Timothy 2:4 means all of the elect scattered all over the world. Sometimes, we will include verses from the previous lesson to show continuity. Frustration: If the ‘all’ as you state is merely ‘all kinds’ and because most lay students of the bible apparently then must rely on the experts in Greek and Hebrew should we not pour fuel upon our ill translated bibles, thus burning them and give up studying until we get a properly translated Bible that is worth its salt so we might truly be the salt of the world? Who are the "all people" of verse 1? Posted by: There is, in many respects, a strong resemblance between the first part of this chapter, 1 Timothy 4:1-6. He cannot choose what he does not desire. God will have every tribe, tongue, people group and nation represented around the throne as the heavenly hosts sing of the Lamb who was slain to redeem them. 3.If God is omniscient, then He knows everything that is true. > 2017-June-11 2 Timothy (part 1) (mp3) > Recordings prior to this time may still be available on request. In one fact, I know of someone who was evidently tormented by some life event and lived a life of drugs and alcohol to deaden the pain. c. The prodigal son experienced. Analysis Of The Chapter. If these people have their eyes opened, they will not be persecutors of Christians but will enact laws that will actually restrain sin so "that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way." God "desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth." but will have C (everlasting life). They eventually died of a drug overdose. What could you have done about it? Some teach universal salvation through this verse. She is not asking if everyone on planet earth is in the classroom, but because of the context in which the question is framed (the school teacher's classroom) we understand she is referring to all within a certain class or type - in this case, all the students signed up for the class. Those who argue against unconditional election often use verses like 1 Timothy 2:4 and John 3:16. 2 Timothy 2:25 He must gently reprove those who oppose him, in the hope that God may grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth. What does it mean to preach the Word (2 Timothy 4:2)? We will briefly consider both topics. Not every call is effective, as we may experience in our daily life.The reformed doctrine on predestination is clear on this issue. 1 Timothy 2:4. It is hard to definitively say who can be saved or better yet what is the initiating factor that jump starts the process of salvation. Dennis Thomsen | Make prayer of this kind a priority - do it "first of all" - pray for these people Timothy - make sure the Church is praying for these people - because God desires all kinds of people - even kings (or Emperors like Caesar) and the elete in society - people of every kind, to be saved. Countspankula | God is all-powerful, all-sovereign, all-good, and is love. It is so great that only the effectual grace of God working in his heart can bring him to faith.". John Piper Jun 25, 1989 2K Shares God is most glorified in us when we are most satisfied in him Learn more about Desiring God 5) Predestination: yes. The answer, simply, is nothing. 1 Timothy 2:4-6 God willeth the savation of all men. We have already shown that Jesus explicitly and unambiguously taught that no man has the ability to come to him without God doing something to give him that ability, namely drawing him. How amazing to me it is that so many believe "all" is every created person that Jesus came to secure salvation for, and yet "all" dont get saved...thats so rediculas because Jesus is perfect God of perfect God, and some would have it that he didn't do his job. As long as he remains in the flesh, unregenerate, he will never choose Christ. Posted by: What are the different theories of biblical inspiration? 15:10). April Diaz | Our discussion questions, teaching points, and applications can help you or your small group get the most out of this book as you grow in understanding and obedience. He has no desire for Christ. How can an elder come under the same condemnation as the devil (1 Timothy 3:6)? 1 Timothy 2:4, KJV: "Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." Though our English translation says "whoever believes" the literal rendering is accurately translated as "every believing one" and the emphasis is NOT AT ALL on the "whosoever" but on the belief. ALL who do A (believe in Him) randall | The love of God constrained me. 5. 2 Therefore I [] exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, 2 for kings and all who are in [] authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and [] reverence. 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